Good afternoon. This is the House Energy Committee. Thank you for joining us.
Today is February 12th and the time is
138 p.m. Members presents are represented Edgman representing cops represented Costello
Representative reference coach here nears and myself coach your Holland. Do you have a quorum to conduct business?
I'd like to remind members and staff that we're allowing members to use electronic devices
during the committee meetings, but please silence your cell phones as a reminder.
Staff and members of the audience may now approach the table.
If you need to pass a note to committee members, please get the attention of my
committee aides and through over here in the corner, and he will take care of it.
Before we get started, I would like
to thank recording secretary Kayle Brown and Renzo Moises.
in the back from the Gino-LIL for technical support.
Today's agenda, we have one item on our agenda.
We'll be hearing public testimony and entertaining amendments
on House Joint Resolution 27 supporting state energy development
sponsored by myself, co-chair Holland.
This is the resolution second hearing.
We had previously advertised a second hearing of House Bill 252,
but have had to push it as the draft of additional changes to the bill are not yet available for us.
So I will now pass the gavel to co-chair Mears.
Thank you, co chair Holland.
First, we'll take up HCR 27, supporting state energy development, and
we will open up the resolution for public testimony.
First off, is there anyone in the room
who wishes to testify?
Steering and hearing none,
is, there, anyone on the phone?
There is not.
Thank you very much for that quick
and efficient public testimony.
With no one in a room or online,
I will encourage folks to always keep in mind
any time of day on our email, which is house.energy at akaledge.gov, but for
this resolution public testimony is now closed. And now we'll pick up the
amendments we received. We do have two amendments.
Madam chair, I move amendment one work order 34 dash LS 0 9 7 3 backslash
I dot 3 and I'll object for purposes of discussion representative Holland and staff. We please speak the amendment sure
this amendment is
Got a number of changes in there. I would like to I think kind of summarizes three broad aims
to help you kind of walk through the changes.
The first one is simply updating numbers
in a language that have become stale
since the bill was introduced last spring,
including removing some sections about frozen federal funding
that we believe has now become moot.
The second area is trimming some of the clauses
to tighten its focus on the response to questions
asked during the first
hearing that we had in the presentation. I appreciate the feedback that
we have encouraging us to try and remove some of the areas that were unnecessary
to just keep it a little tighter.
The third and most important area and substantive area is adding in clauses that expand on the
hydrogen production, storage, and use.
As this committee has heard, as we've seen over the interim, hydrogen is both an area
of potential growth for Alaska and also an airy where we need further clarity from the
state in terms of regulatory frameworks, royalty rules, permitting, particularly in the areas
interplay between mining and oil and gas capabilities that we have at this point.
We have some additional detail I can walk through on the specifics of the amendments
if you'd like or we can pause there for questions if
you have them but we're ready to go through more detail if
you would like to through the details.
Representative Paul and walk us through a little bit of the opportunities
Pardon me representative cop. Can you please microphone and repeat your question sure? Yes. Thank you
co-chair mirrors
Representative holland can you walk through? A little better the opportunity with hydrogen so that we can get our heads around?
this amendment a
Sure through the co chair mirrors the
opportunity for hydrogen I would
I think look at in kind of two main perspectives, one is where can we get it and the second is what can
work over the last year and we've had a hydrogen working group that has been
facilitated for at least a year-and-a-half has
been exploring many different facets of hydrogen. And during that time
there's become a great awareness that hydrogen is actually in some places
geologically simply in the ground and in
some cases kind of bubbling up kind like we used to think of oil
showing up as oil seeps and naturally occurring gas.
Hydrogen is naturally given off by, in many cases, the oxidation and degradation of iron
underneath in the ground, so particularly if you get over in Minnesota and Michigan and
areas in Midwest where we typically think of as iron-rich states, you'll find actually
we've discovered a lot of hydrogen is being produced as a byproduct in an oxidation process.
On one hand, we're starting to see naturally occurring hydrogen, and indeed there's a community
I don't have the name on top of my head in Africa that's actually found enough of it that they just simply power their community off of hydrogen.
Further though has become a greater awareness of how to potentially identify where the hydrogen is occurring, but also how
to stimulate it.
And I believe a couple hearings ago, here, we heard from a particular company that is stimulating the production of hydrogen by heating up the ground and has found that you can get more hydrogen energy out than what you have to put in the
ground, so it becomes a positive net benefit.
So, first off, we're discovering that there are natural sources of hydrogen that we believe
are in Alaska, and we are finding that our way is to stimulate the hydrogen we can be
using.
So on one hand, you know, I think we've got hydrogen, that want to collect and produce
the second side of your question is what can we do with it?
In some areas like Hawaii, hydrogen is collected and actually added into the natural gas stream,
the supply of natural gas, you can put 10, 15%.
into that stream in there.
We can also use hydrogen for producing other fuels.
We could use Hydrogen all by itself in a fuel cell,
but we can process it and turn it into ammonia
and we could ship it in an export.
So it becomes a product, a value added product
that we use.
We also can use it as feed stock
into making sustainable aircraft fuel,
which is now being used by airlines in Alaska
that are coming through.
Currently we have to import it all in.
But down the road, we could be producing more of the aircraft
fuel, the SAF fuels here that we need.
So we can develop the ability to collect it,
stimulate it store it and then develop
the industries that are using it.
We have a variety of uses for it for could
be heating, could being powering vehicles,
could what I believe is a future export of our state.
Thank you very very good, and I was I wasn't hoping for that educational
Answer for the benefit of our whole committee and any of those members
Fascinated with this resolution
I
Have another question
representative cop. Yeah, so
the in addition to
You know highlighting the opportunity to the hydrogen industry in the state. You've also mentioned establishing a task force
Is there any concern that they may that might attach a fiscal note to this? Do we need to have that in there?
I was just
Just wondering especially if it's a government related tax force. There's actually being asked to give us a deliverable
Sure. Yeah through the chair
Let me take a partial answer at that but I may see if my staff Tim has got any additional thoughts on this
But my general thought of course is that we in essence already have and have had a task force working on this hydrogen working group has been in play for a year and a half.
So it's my hope that that group to some extent is asked to continue facilitating what is already a group that brings together the public sector and the private sector to be able to work on identifying these issues and to advocate for these policies.
I recognize that too.
Yeah, so yeah, why don't you go down the table
so that Jeremy is going to call on you when she's ready,
but if you want to throw it over to Representative.
Yes, from the perspective of the speaker's office,
in terms of referring bills and bills,
picking up a fiscal note during the course
of hearing process, I would, you know,
I think it's in solid ground to opine
that this is just an advisory vehicle,
and it proposes to do something
putting into law that something is being done so in my view it wouldn't pick up a fiscal note.
Thank you representative Ajman. Mr. Chair do you have anything to add to that?
I'll just say that when we requested this language from the legislative legal services we specifically
asked them to phrase it in such a way that it would do as Speaker Adrian suggested and not
Are there additional questions before Representative Holland continues with this?
Some details on the amendment.
Coach or Holland?
Great.
Well, I guess kind of put this back to you as a question.
I can go through more of the details if you'd like.
But I can also kind of leave it there at this point depending upon how much you've already reviewed the amendment
And if you'd like the details, I'm happy to go through it if if not,
I don't need to belabor
The details either
Representative reference Madam chair potential. I missed it. Did we move amendment one? Yes, okay
Thank you
Did anyone object I did
Well, I was really not paying attention to that.
Be objective for me.
Thank goodness I, was.
So, and Jeremy, is this it's OK?
Let me try and maybe wrap this up.
A level?
High level, if you'd like.
I would basically just offer that, you know,
the changes on page one are really just
freshening up some numbers and a little bit of clean up on it.
Two was, again, more clean up, trimming out some sections and
taking out the unnecessary clause around frozen funds.
The real changes are simply where we introduce the changes
that are on page two and three that begins to bring in the hydrogen-related
focus here.
And in that, there's three portions of that that
invitation to work on a task force to provide some direction to the next
legislature around advanced energy and mineral development and work
on the framework for the authority and permitting an oversight of hydrogen
development. And in the third resolve section.
we're clarifying some specific subtopics that we believe
from industry and from academic discussions
about the status of hydrogen that believe our specific areas
require some clarification in order to move ahead.
And in particular, some organizations that would like
to more forward on projects, the clarity they need,
that looks at the classification of hydrazinal data activities
as it relates to land leasing, subsurface rights,
management, the use of existing oil and gas units that might be, might have depleted reservoirs
and other formations that may be available for storage.
The coordination of land access and leasing and right of ways to support the hydrogen
production, storage and transmission.
The alignment of hydrogen development in the state and our energy security along with
the pricing and energy growth opportunities and finally that the DNR help assess whether
additional capacity would be needed to perform future hydrogen resource assessments.
So again clarifying here in this last point this is not asking DMR to increase its capacity
or incur any costs but to help advise the next legislature on whether or not there might
Thank you, Co-chair Holland.
Is there further questions or discussions on the amendment?
Seeing none, I will remove my objection
to adopting the Amendment.
Are there any further objections?
Seeing no objections, that Amendment 1 is now adopted.
We have a second amendment.
We do have motion.
I move amendment 2.
Can you give us the work order number, please?
It's amendment 1.
34-LS0973 backslashindia.2.
Thank you, and I'll object for purposes of discussion.
Representative Costello.
If we could have my aid come to the table, Madam Co-chair.
Yes, please.
Please put yourself on the record and explain the amendment.
Jack Thompson, legislative aid,
the representative Costello.
This amendment implements two wear-ass sections on page three, line 11, with regards to nuclear technologies that go as following
whereas advanced nuclear technology, including small modular reactors and micro reactors,
offer the state a reliable non-intermittent zero carbon base load energy source capable of supporting industrial development,
lowering energy costs and strengthening long-term statewide energy security, and whereas the strategic development
This, excuse me, deployment of nuclear micro reactors in rural Alaska and military installations
and in emerging industrial hubs will provide stable power, essential for national security
operations, Arctic readiness, and the development of critical mineral and rare earth projects
across the state and additionally on page five, line eight, updating the name of the Department
of Defense, corresponding with the federal name change.
Thank you before I remove my objection. I'd like to note that the Department of War is
By executive order and there has not been a congressional change and then it's legally still a department of defense
I believe in this context. We're not dealing with it legally. So
Having either of those names is is appropriate and
There's no objections from the committee.I will
Remove mine any further
Seeing no objections this amendment is adopted
Brief it is I'm just clarifying we've got somebody
We are back on the record in house energy. I may have a motion to adopt the resolution as amended
co-chair mirrors I move the HD that HD are 27 37
Dash LS 0 9 7 3 backslash. Eye is amended with individual recommendations move out of committee
I don't think are you objective that's not the right word
to clarify the order.
Then the number, it's actually 34 dash LS.
I don't know.
We heard you say 37.
I said 37?
Yeah.
Well, Madam.
Do you withdraw that motion?
And would you like to make another?
I'll withdraw my motion and repeat the correct motion.
Thank you, Representative Cop.
Coach, your mirrors, I move that HDR 27.
dash LS0973 backslash I as amended with individual recommendations and I'll
finish the thought by saying moves out a committee with a company fiscal notes
but there are no fiscal modes with technique with oh boy it's not in the
script but it should be I will do that part he said he
Yeah, as amended with technical and conforming changes. Yes. I think as a mandate. Yeah
works
Thank you represent a regimen and I second that motion
Excellent not what we do here, but I appreciate that. There's any objection
We're taking over
Seeing no objection
H.A.R. 2734 dash LS0973 backslash I moves from committee
with individual recommendations and the ability for leg legal
to make any conforming and technical changes.
Congratulations, Mr. Hall.
So I will now hand the gavel back to Coach Herr Hahn
and we will sign our book when we're done here.
All right.
Representative Holland.
Great, thanks.
I think we're done.
We're all done seeing no further business before the committee.
I.
Think though, did we have an announcement about our meeting next Tuesday?
I'm looking in the script.
I know we don't.
That's why I try to make sure I make the proper announcement on this.
So that concludes our business for today.
On Tuesday, we will not be holding a House Energy Committee
on Thursday, February 19th.
We anticipate holding public testimony of House Bill 164
and a second hearing of house bill 252.
Seeing no further business before the committee,
this meeting is adjourned at two o'clock.
Thank you.